Dan Slagle (00:00):

To go back to that conversation, we were on total opposite ends.

Natalie Slagle (00:04):

We were like a money anxiety that I have is different or non-existent for you. And so, how do we as a couple address the anxiety I have, which is over the same exact situation, isn't that insane? I have anxieties around the same exact situation as you, but you have a different feeling from it.

[Music Playing]

Natalie Slagle (00:41):

Welcome to Money Dates, the podcast that makes money conversations with your partner feel a little less taboo. I'm Natalie Slagle, a certified financial planner, and I'm joined by my husband and business partner, Dan Slagle, also a certified financial planner. Say hi, Dan.

Dan Slagle (00:56):

Hello.

Natalie Slagle (00:57):

In each episode, we'll share honest stories and practical tips to help you and your partner feel more connected and confident on your financial journey. So, grab your drink, get comfortable, and join us for our money dates.

Natalie Slagle (01:12):

Hi, Dan.

Dan Slagle (01:12):

Hey, Natalie. Hey, happy Friday. At the time of recording, this is Friday. It’s Friday afternoon, it is beautiful, it is sunny out. I feel like when you listen to podcasts or if you've been on a podcast, there's always some nice pleasantries at the beginning of an episode, and I was just thinking you and I spend most of our day together. Do we need to have these pleasantries?

Natalie Slagle (01:43):

Yes, because we usually never do, and so I would … like Dan, well, usually a pleasantry is whether I know what weather you're having because I'm 20 feet away from you, but tell me what's something you're looking forward to this weekend?

Dan Slagle (02:01):

Oh, this weekend, I am currently training for a marathon in the fall, so that consumes most of my week and also my weekend. So, I have a-

Natalie Slagle (02:12):

At least your free time.

Dan Slagle (02:14):

My free time, yes. Never during working hours-

Natalie Slagle (02:15):

You're not running like all day.

Dan Slagle (02:18):

Absolutely not. Well, yeah, I'm not running all day. So, I will be training for my marathon with my long run. I usually try to do that on Saturday if I can. I really enjoy doing it earlier in the morning because not many people are out, I can run on the street, not have to worry about what could possibly happen if it was a little busier out.

Dan Slagle (02:44):

And I love doing it at the start of the day because then I can come home, relax, as much as having a one-year-old allows you to relax, who just started crawling and moving around. But my favorite part about it is I feel like I can eat whatever the heck I want after training.

Natalie Slagle (03:06):

Yes, that is really nice. I mean, I kind of feel like I get to benefit with that as well. So, we have some good eating plans this weekend alongside you-

Dan Slagle (03:17):

Yes, we do. What are you looking forward to?

Natalie Slagle (03:19):

I might go in a two-seater plane with a friend this weekend. So, I've never done that and that sounds really fun, and I'm kind of scared, and it will be … she was talking to me about the different routes we can do, and she's like, “We could do a really short route in case you need to get off the plane.” And I was like, “No, no, no, no. If I'm going to do it, I'm going to do it.”

Natalie Slagle (03:43):

I want to go either go to the ocean and back or I don't know, we're still kind of mapping it out, but hopefully, I’m-

Dan Slagle (03:51):

Get out of the plane as in like she's going to land the plane and you're going to get out at that time.

Natalie Slagle (03:56):

Right, yeah.

Dan Slagle (03:57):

Not like you're going to freak out and jump out the plane, like go skydiving.

Natalie Slagle (04:00):

No, although having a parachute would make me feel a little better. We’ll be fine.

Dan Slagle (04:04):

I'm sure those planes have to be equipped with parachutes. Or in the movies, like the ejector seats, you press the big red button and then you go flying into the air.

Natalie Slagle (04:15):

Exactly.

Dan Slagle (04:16):

Anyways, anyways, very good. These were nice pleasantries, I enjoyed that. Well, let's get to some subject matter for the day, and I think the topic that we want to talk about today is how do we handle one partner in a relationship who may be more financially anxious than the other.

Natalie Slagle (04:38):

If you're listening to this and maybe you've listened to a couple episodes at this point, can you just think in your head between Dan and Natalie, one is more anxious about money than the other than, who would you assume? You're shaking your head, Dan, why are you shaking your head already at me?

Dan Slagle (04:58):

I don't know. I don't have a good answer on why I'm shaking … just I would be curious to what the listeners or who they think is a little more financially anxious.

Natalie Slagle (05:07):

Yeah. I mean, and one thing that we keep forgetting to mention is apparently, you can put reviews on this podcast or comments, so comment. Like okay, when this question was asked, I thought it was going to be Dan or I thought it was going to be Natalie, but we're going to kind of share our results.

Natalie Slagle (05:27):

And then I would be really curious people listening to this if they think them and their partner are the same or different. I would say we're different, but we're going to find out because you made me take this little test, which-

Dan Slagle (05:43):

I did, I did. We'll get to that. Don't spill all the beans quite yet.

Natalie Slagle (05:46):

Okay. Sorry, I'm excited.

Dan Slagle (05:49):

I know you are, we'll get to that here in a little bit. I think going back to just the overall topic in general, one of biggest pieces of advice that I could give, at least that's helped us. Every partnership's going to have what works best for them at the end of the day.

Dan Slagle (06:07):

I think something that's helped us is acknowledgement of different money mindsets within the relationship and identifying where certain tendencies or beliefs, behaviors, where they come from. I think that for us at least, that has been a really important conversation that we've had that instills some light into maybe how your partner views money whenever you bring it up.

Dan Slagle (06:36):

Maybe there could be some trauma there. There could be past experiences that have just shaped how they interact with money, whether it's avoidance. What are some other behaviors that you see?

Natalie Slagle (06:51):

There's avoidance. I mean, avoidance could even be avoidance of talking about it. A lot of people just avoid the topic (spending too much, spending too little), and just having unrealistic ideas around money, and that can mean you don't think you have enough, and you really do, or you think you have plenty and you really don't. So, all the things.

Dan Slagle (07:17):

Yeah, spending too much, like frugality is something that comes up. There's some better technical terms for those two categories. You want to know what they are?

Natalie Slagle (07:28):

Yes.

Dan Slagle (07:29):

Well, someone who spends maybe too much can also be known as a spend thrift.

Natalie Slagle (07:35):

That's right.

Dan Slagle (07:37):

And someone who is maybe reluctant to spend as much, they're called a tightwad.

Natalie Slagle (07:43):

That also makes sense.

Dan Slagle (07:45):

Yeah, yeah. I feel like the spend thrift is like … if I was labeled a spend thrift, I'd be like, “Yeah, that’s me.” If I was labeled a tightwad, I'd be like, “What the heck?”

Natalie Slagle (07:54):

I know. I feel like that has a lot of different meanings and it doesn't even have to do with money. So that one-

Dan Slagle (08:01):

We should give some background too. Those aren't just two terms that you and I came up with. I just didn't come up with those two terms on the fly here. There's been some study and research done. We'll link to an assessment in our show notes, which is basically looking at are you a spend thrift or a tightwad based on a scale and how you answer certain questions.

Dan Slagle (08:26):

The University of Michigan put this scale together to see where you may land on this scale. And I think it's really important because the scale not only to understand your results, where you fit in on that overall scale, but where your partner does as well.

Dan Slagle (08:42):

And I think it's a really good exercise to go through and better understand where each of you are, and what are some pros and cons that come with being on either end of the scale, or if you're in the middle of the scale, which maybe one of us are. We'll get to that here in a little bit.

Natalie Slagle (08:57):

I feel like the topic we wanted to talk about is when one spouse maybe feels more anxious than the other. And so, we wanted to take an assessment to maybe see who's more anxious about something.

Natalie Slagle (09:12):

So, I'm trying to tie this in because I think you can have an anxiety around money regardless of if you're a spend thrift, a tightwad or somewhere in between, but the anxiety stem from something different. That's my thought with that.

Dan Slagle (09:31):

Yeah, and going back to the assessment, and we're going to reveal some results here in a few minutes. Going back to the assessment done by the University of Michigan, it's based on how participants from the New York Times have landed on the scale.

Dan Slagle (09:49):

A spend thrift by their definition is the idea of some people have trouble limiting their spending. They often spend money, for example, on clothes, meals, vacations, when they actually would be better off not doing those things.

Natalie Slagle (10:07):

From a financial perspective, maybe not from a-

Dan Slagle (10:09):

From a financial perspective, yeah.

Natalie Slagle (10:10):

Maybe not from a life – because spending money on all those things sound quite nice.

Dan Slagle (10:14):

It does sound nice. Spending money on a vacation sounds pretty nice. I feel like I'm overdue for one. On the other end, a tightwad is the idea other people have trouble spending money. So, verbatim what it says perhaps because spending money makes them anxious, they don't spend money on things that they should spend it on, meaning they have the resources to spend money on certain things, and they choose not to.

Dan Slagle (10:40):

There's a barrier there, there's some sort of block preventing them on spending their money on a particular item or experience.

Natalie Slagle (10:50):

Right, exactly. And I like how it's phrased on things you should spend money on because we're inundated with ads and recommendations from people and like, “Oh, go buy this, go buy this,” and everything kind of feels like a want.

Natalie Slagle (11:05):

I mean, we have a handful of clients that we have to really … I'm pretending like I'm shaking them. You have so much money and there are things you want to do and you're not doing it, and you have the resources to do it. You should go spend this money. You should go book that trip and have this experience.

Natalie Slagle (11:30):

Or maybe it is buy whatever. I think it's just a little bit easier to attribute a good spend is on an experience, but sometimes what you were saying, you should go spend your money on this nice thing or whatever it may be.

Dan Slagle (11:45):

Yeah. Well, I want to go to our results of this assessment, and again, it'll be in the show notes. You can take the assessment, take it along with your partner, highly recommend it. The scale goes 4 to 26, I believe, depending on how you answer the questions. I have shared my results with you. In response to me sharing my results, you said, “I'm not going to share my results with you until we are recording the podcast.”

Natalie Slagle (12:13):

It makes it more fun.

Dan Slagle (12:15):

It does. I totally wish I would've gone back and not done that. So, who should go first and share the results?

Natalie Slagle (12:24):

Let's have you, because I'm already looking at it.

Dan Slagle (12:26):

Okay, okay. That sounds good.

Natalie Slagle (12:27):

But I want to hear you talk about it.

Dan Slagle (12:29):

Well, so how the assessment works, a scale of 4 to 26, 4 through 11 categorizes you as a tightwad, 12 through 18 categorizes you as an unconflicted consumer.

Natalie Slagle (12:44):

That sounds nice.

Dan Slagle (12:46):

It does. It sounds … it does sound really nice. And 19 through 26 is spend thrift. Those are the ranges.

Natalie Slagle (12:53):

Okay, the higher the number, the more you like to spend. The lower the number, the more you don't like to spend. Okay, I'm following.

Dan Slagle (13:04):

Yeah, yeah, essentially, it’s categorizing you in one of those three categories. So, where I fell on the assessment was a number 12. So, technically speaking, I am an unconflicted consumer. I'm on the low end of the scale, as low as you can go, because again, tightwad stops at 11, unconflicted consumer starts at 12.

Dan Slagle (13:27):

And I thought about this, and I think it's pretty accurate. I think it's pretty accurate. The reason why I would say that is – and you know me, anytime we go shopping, I might grab one or two things and then my usual end result is I don't need it, I don't need it.

Natalie Slagle (13:49):

That's so true.

Dan Slagle (13:49):

Which is why I bring you to come shopping with me because you may encourage me to get it, whatever it may be; piece of clothing, new shoes, whatever it may be. And it's interesting based on that … and I don't even know your results yet, which I'm really curious.

Dan Slagle (14:06):

Based on like the dynamic of our relationship, I thought I would score within the 19 to 26. I thought I would be more of a spend thrift. But actually, going through it, it does make sense that I kind of fit in the middle. I'm neutral, I'm Switzerland in this game.

Natalie Slagle (14:24):

I also thought you would be more on the spend thrift side, but I didn't read into the data and the results as much as you did before. I thought you were either going to be one or the other. I didn't know there was this middle ground.

Natalie Slagle (14:39):

Now that I know that there's this middle ground, and I don't know if we've talked about what's the desired place to be, but the middle ground does sound like you kind of get the best of both. I don't know. So, I'm like that makes sense, that makes sense.

Dan Slagle (14:53):

Yeah. Alright. Well, I shared where I'm at.

Natalie Slagle (14:56):

Yeah, I want to share my results before we dive into how it impacts us as a household. So, can you guess, Dan, what side I was on?

Dan Slagle (15:09):

I'm going to put you in the tightwad camp.

Natalie Slagle (15:11):

You are correct.

Dan Slagle (15:11):

And I'm going to go with that you scored an 8.

Natalie Slagle (15:14):

Okay, great. Man, you know me, you know me. So, to be fully transparent, I took the test when you first sent it to me, and then I exited out of the test, so then I had to redo it again. So, the first time I took the test, I got an 8. The second time I took the test, I got a 9. So, I'm somewhere between an 8 and a 9.

Dan Slagle (15:35):

8.5, yeah.

Natalie Slagle (15:37):

8.5. And what's the scale go to? I could be all the way up into an 11 and still be in the tightwad, and I am more anxious about our household finances than you are. Do you believe it's because I'm also more anxious about spending money?

Dan Slagle (15:58):

Yes, I do.

Natalie Slagle (16:00):

Okay.

Dan Slagle (16:01):

I feel like they go hand in hand. Do you feel like they're different?

Natalie Slagle (16:04):

Well, I would imagine someone who is high, they’re 20 to 25, I would imagine those people have a lot of consumer debt because I think of a spend thrift, the problem that on the way-way far left, a 4 of a tightwad is you have more money than you know what to do with, which I know some people hear that and they're like, what a privilege, that's not a problem.

Natalie Slagle (16:31):

But from someone in the seat of being a financial planner, of seeing people in that, I actually do see there's a lot of problems with that. And so, you have maybe balances, whatever. There is problems to that. So, I'm like okay, there's probably problems with the spend thrift side, and to me, it's probably you're taking on more than you can chew. So, I'm a tightwad.

Dan Slagle (16:56):

You are a tightwad. Why do you think you're a tightwad?

Natalie Slagle (16:59):

Why do I think I'm a tightwad? Ooh, I like control. I find I have a lot of control, or I can satisfy that need for control with money. And so, that's more of like this is why we have lots of spreadsheets for our household, lots of things for our household when it comes to our money.

Natalie Slagle (17:20):

I don't know if that actually goes into the, well, why do I like that? Why do I like that control? Or what am I anxious about? To me, it's like I get anxious about spending money because I'm afraid of the impact it will have on our future financials.

Dan Slagle (17:41):

Yeah, yeah. I think that's fair. Let's dive in. Why do you think you need to have as much control over finances as you do? Where does that come from?

Natalie Slagle (17:56):

My initial thought that came up was what would happen if I didn't? Because I am kind of the one who says this is how much we can spend in a month, and this is how much is in this bucket. And you're just like, “Great. That makes sense.”

Natalie Slagle (18:10):

We do talk about it and it's nice. I have a partner who gets all the financial things, but it seems like a lot of the setup is because it adheres to my anxiety, my financial anxiety, my question that came up to the question you answered me was like, what happens if I just stopped? I just was like, whoop!

Natalie Slagle (18:31):

And again, it just feels like it'll all unravel, and I don't know what to do with that, or I don't know how else to analyze that. But the unraveling makes me nervous, so I'm going to have to think on that.

Dan Slagle (18:49):

Yeah, at least you're aware of it and you've made me through the time we've been together, I'm fully aware of it as well. And to go back to what step one is, I think it's just that, having these conversations, even just … an assessment's an assessment.

Dan Slagle (19:06):

An assessment is just a point in time how you answer certain questions. And I'm not knocking the study by any means. I am more so saying things can change. Just because you answer things a certain way, it doesn't always mean that's the bucket that you live in the rest of your life.

Dan Slagle (19:24):

I think you've identified a major step is like finding the tools that allow you to have a conversation like this with your partner. And I think that can go a long ways. We all know the stat about marriages and finances and what's one of the contributing factors of it not working out. Just find the tools, find the middle ground to have a conversation. That's step one.

Natalie Slagle (19:52):

And as far as the tightwad-spend thrift study, I don't know if I really want to change significantly. Maybe I'd get to a 12 someday, but it's just kind of rooted in me, and I'm not looking to change significantly from the outcome of that study.

Natalie Slagle (20:13):

I would like to change my anxiety around money because one thing you point out to me, Dan, is I don't want to say this in a way that diminishes my feelings, but it's almost like is it warranted? Am I warranted to have anxiety around money? And you've never said it like that. I'm kind of just like re-

Dan Slagle (20:33):

Geez, I was going to say I am not going to press you like that.

Natalie Slagle (20:37):

No, you validate my feelings, that's all true. But you also help pull me out of the anxiety. There was one time we were sitting on a couch – it was our couch in the living room, this special couch. It was our couch, and I can't remember what the topic was or why we were talking about it, but I was like, “Dan, I always think about how much we're saving to retirement and if it’s enough. I'm always thinking about that.”

Natalie Slagle (21:05):

And your response blew me away. You were like, “Oh, I never think about that.” And literally, that was like, boom, what? You're not worried about that? And I don't even remember what our conversation was afterwards, but to me, that was such a pivotal moment in our … I'll just say in our relationship on how different our minds work around money.

Dan Slagle (21:33):

Yeah. In the end, outcome of that conversation was you doubling our 401(k) contribution and me just saying, “Sure, if that's what you need to feel better about the future, then do it.” And it is not like I'm totally not in the know of what's going on from a savings perspective, I think I've had different experiences in my life where I'm prioritizing making sure I'm enjoying today or funding for our daughter's education, whatever it may be, or reinvesting back into our business.

Dan Slagle (22:06):

My mindset is maybe more so focused on now and the next five years, whereas you're thinking 30, 40 years out, which we need to do still. So, it's a balance between the two. But to your point, to go back to that conversation, we were on total opposite ends.

Natalie Slagle (22:25):

We were. A money anxiety that I have is different or non-existent for you.

Dan Slagle (22:35):

Yeah.

Natalie Slagle (22:36):

And so, how do we as a couple address the anxiety I have, which is this over the same exact situation, isn't that insane? I have anxieties around the same exact situation as you, but you have a different feeling from it.

Natalie Slagle (22:58):

We need a therapist here to like, “This is why, blah, blah, blah.” There's a lot to be said about that. We're looking, we're feeling, we're living the same exact thing, but we're processing it differently. And so, I really appreciate, Dan, you just emphasizing how important it is that we have these conversations because my feelings are valid and you make sure I feel that way, but so are your feelings.

Natalie Slagle (23:22):

I think we operate our finances tailored towards my anxieties, but you would have the right to be like, “No, we're not going to save that much to the 401(k). Instead, we're going to go spend it. We're going to go on an international trip instead of putting that in our …” Like you have that right.

Dan Slagle (23:37):

Well, I think you and I are fortunate to be pretty close if were to go back to the assessment on the scale. There are some partners that are going to be on … someone's going to score a 4, like lowest tightwad score you can get, someone's going to score a 26 on the spend thrift.

Dan Slagle (23:57):

And I think managing the differences there is likely going to be more difficult than maybe you and I experience where … I mean, this is also our field, this is our industry. So, we have baseline knowledge and have some of the tools that we feel will equip us to handle these conversations.

Dan Slagle (24:18):

So, I think we are fortunate to not be so far on opposite ends, and I do think our numbers have probably come closer as the longer you and I have been together.

Natalie Slagle (24:31):

That's a good point.

Dan Slagle (24:32):

And it's like correlation doesn't mean equal causation. I probably wrote that one time in a philosophy paper in college, and you were just like, “This is an amazing sentence.” And I was like, “Thank you, stats.”

Natalie Slagle (24:46):

You did not make that up though. That's been a sentence in the world.

Dan Slagle (24:50):

I know, but no one's ever used it in that subject before.

Natalie Slagle (24:53):

Oh, okay. I was like, “Wha? Are you trying to take … okay.”. Anyways-

Dan Slagle (24:56):

Anyways.

Natalie Slagle (24:57):

But that's such a good point. I think I was more of a tightwad when we first started dating, and you were more of a spend thrift or at least higher in the whatever, the unconflicted consumer category. You were higher there, I was lower, a lower number. Why are you laughing?

Dan Slagle (25:16):

I'm sorry, that was disrespectful of me. But I am laughing because of the example that we had this morning where we went to go get coffee after dropping our daughter off at daycare, and I asked you to bring your wallet because my wallet was all the way upstairs, and we brought your wallet to pay for the coffee.

Natalie Slagle (25:35):

We did.

Dan Slagle (25:35):

And full transparency, we have joint accounts, we share money. It doesn't really matter. But I remember right after we ordered coffee, you just left the register. And I was like, “You got to pay for that, that's why we brought your wallet. You got to pay for it, and that lady behind us laughed.

Dan Slagle (25:53):

So, why I am telling that story is because I feel like I was more of a spend thrift at the beginning of our relationship because I was trying to woo you. I was trying to pay for everything. So, you only saw one side of it.

Natalie Slagle (26:06):

Okay.

Dan Slagle (26:07):

When you're first dating, you don't see internally how I'm feeling or where it comes from.

Natalie Slagle (26:13):

Well, that was an investment that I think paid off.

Dan Slagle (26:16):

That's right.

Natalie Slagle (26:17):

Right.

Dan Slagle (26:17):

That's right. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I really encourage listeners for you to take this assessment. I think this was a really good conversation, and I think it's just really important to have tools like this that allow you to understand where maybe some money philosophies, experiences come from, and giving you a platform to have that conversation with your partner.

[Music Playing]

Natalie Slagle (26:42):

Yeah. Thanks so much, Dan.

Dan Slagle (26:44):

Thanks, Natalie.

Natalie Slagle (26:45):

Bye-bye.

Voiceover (26:48):

Hey, if you've enjoyed this episode and are looking for personalized financial guidance, schedule a free complimentary consultation using the link in the description below. Natalie and Dan Slagle are the founding partners of Fyooz Financial Planning, a registered investment advisor. The information provided in this podcast is for informational purposes only, and should not be considered investment advice or a recommendation to buy or sell any securities. Investing involves risk, including the potential loss of principal. Advisory services are offered to clients or prospective clients where Fyooz Financial Planning and its representatives are properly licensed or exempt from licensure. For more information, including our disclosures, please visit our website at www.fyoozfinancial.com.

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