Natalie Slagle (00:00):

I feel like we've done a good job of, hey, you're taking care of this when it comes to our finances, and I'm taking care of that. But do we check in on the mental capacity of it? And I wonder how many other couples, did they talk about this? Just the mental load of managing a household's finances has on a person.

[Music Playing]

Natalie Slagle (00:29):

Welcome to Money Dates, the podcast that makes money conversations with your partner feel a little less taboo. I'm Natalie Slagle, a certified financial planner, and I'm joined by my husband and business partner, Dan Slagle, also a certified financial planner. Say hi, Dan.

Dan Slagle (00:45):

Hello.

Natalie Slagle (00:45):

In each episode, we'll share honest stories and practical tips to help you and your partner feel more connected and confident on your financial journey. So, grab your drink, get comfortable, and join us for our money dates.

Dan Slagle (01:00):

Episode number two. We officially did it.

Natalie Slagle (01:03):

We did it. We're here. We've gotten through the first one and there was a topic that came up — not a topic, but a phrase that made me think of this next conversation.

Dan Slagle (01:17):

What was the phrase?

Natalie Slagle (01:18):

Calling you my passenger princess of finances.

Dan Slagle (01:22):

Oh, you said that. You said that in the last episode?

Natalie Slagle (01:26):

Yeah. Did you not catch that?

Dan Slagle (01:28):

No, I wasn't sure if it was in the episode or if it was at home in conversation.

Natalie Slagle (01:37):

Nope. It was in the episode. Today's topic that I want to talk to you about is the mental load of managing money.

Dan Slagle (01:47):

Okay.

Natalie Slagle (01:48):

There's been a lot of discussions I feel like, on just the mental load of things. Right now, I'm working on redesigning the office and there's a rug and a rug pad downstairs in our entry way, which I know probably not annoys you because we talked about, but you like to have things put where they need to be anyways.

Natalie Slagle (02:16):

But I'm like, well, there's a rug and the reason why it's not in the office yet is because I have to move furniture and I can't move furniture until I do this. And I can't do that until I do that. To me, that's mental load.

Natalie Slagle (02:27):

And so, there's the things we have to do to take care of our household finances, which I think it's important to list those out. But is it taking a lot of your brain capacity, your brain space, does it feel like a mental load to you?

Dan Slagle (02:47):

No.

Natalie Slagle (02:48):

Great.

Dan Slagle (02:49):

No, it doesn't. I feel like where you're going with this is the conversation around the term primary parent and primary financial person in the household. So, obviously, not obviously, but a lot of households will separate responsibilities to make life easier to know this person has got this camp and if they need help, they'll bring the other person in. So, I feel like maybe you're going there with this conversation.

Natalie Slagle (03:26):

Wherever we want to take it is where we can go. I guess primary parent, I feel like that's a icky word/term in my world. And you and I have had talks about there's no such thing as a primary parent in our household. We got to do whatever we can to make sure one person doesn't feel that way.

Natalie Slagle (03:44):

But there is this sense of delegation, and we have delegated different things even about our household finances on who takes care of what. And I feel like we've done a good job of, hey, you're taking care of this when it comes to our finances and I'm taking care of that. But do we check in on the mental capacity of it? And I wonder how many other couples, did they talk about this? Just the mental load of managing a household's finances has on a person.

Dan Slagle (04:22):

Yeah. I feel like we've had one conversation specifically around this and I feel like it was maybe three or four years ago, if you recall, the conversation we had about, I feel like you were at a point where it was just, there was too much on your plate from a budgeting standpoint and the feelings you got around that when you were the one keeping track of the expenses.

Dan Slagle (04:48):

And I didn't really have a sense of what was being spent day-to-day. I kind of knew our parameters that we had set, but when you're in day-to-day spending, you don't think twice about it. But when you're the one who actually pulls up the credit card transaction statement and enters the expenses into the budgeting app, you're the one who sees what's going on and who sees the amount you've allotted for expenses start to dwindle down.

Dan Slagle (05:14):

And I think at that point in that conversation we had, you were having a tough time with that added role on top of what you were already doing.

Natalie Slagle (05:23):

You're right. We did make that change. And that was really helpful because one of us has to be in charge of just making sure we're not spending too much money. And that person also has to be in charge of communicating that. Which to me that is a mental load as well.

Natalie Slagle (05:43):

Like, hey, the way you and I have set up our finances is we've got our bills account that's on auto and we have a spending account, which I should make a plug for our — we have a cashflow worksheet that kind of explains and outlines how Dan and I operate our credit cards, our bank accounts. And it's really, really helpful for our clients and even people who aren't clients really, really enjoy it.

Natalie Slagle (06:09):

So, I think we should put those in the show notes, but it outlines exactly how we operate. And regardless, we have our bills account and that's on auto. It's like we don't need to track that because we know what's happening. It's daycare, auto loan insurances, that just keeps happening.

Natalie Slagle (06:25):

It's the variable spending that's just kind of a drag. It's so painful to track that, it's different every month. You and I have set up parameters which are helpful, but what ends up happening every month for us is we try to spend about $3,000 a month in that bucket.

Natalie Slagle (06:44):

And I think what was happening is because I'm so analytical, I was like, "Okay, it's the 15th of the month. We should be around $1,500 of spending," but we've actually spent $2,200 and we still have half the month left. If I'm doing the math right now, we have to spend at a smaller clip.

Natalie Slagle (07:03):

And I just hated having that conversation. I hated bringing that up. And to me that's a mental load. Not just the doing of paying off the credit card, making sure there's enough money. Those are really important. But just the mental load of being like, "Hey Dan, we shouldn't go out to eat as much in the next couple weeks because it's really kind of making us go over these parameters we set for ourselves."

Dan Slagle (07:31):

Yeah, I mean, it's exhausting. The communication around it, the feeling of being restricted in spending and almost feeling responsible. Literally being responsible for sharing most of the time, not great news about, hey, we're kind of off track of where we're spending. We need to reduce costs.

Dan Slagle (07:53):

And the other person isn't really involved at all in seeing the transactions. So, back when we were going through this process, my thought was, where are we spending all our money? We don't spend any money. And then you get a little defensive, right?

Natalie Slagle (08:08):

Yeah.

Dan Slagle (08:09):

So, which I think leads into maybe some disagreements or conflict when it comes to just managing day-to-day money as a household.

Natalie Slagle (08:17):

So, one thing I will point out, and I'm glad we're having this conversation because you and I haven't talked about this, is I don't get any sort of like report from you, and I mean that in a verbal report. Like, hey, we did good, and I think I asked you earlier this year and I was like, hey, I mean I'm the one who goes in and pays off the credit card and sometimes I'm like, "Okay, well we don't have as much money as we should."

Natalie Slagle (08:43):

And I'm like, "What's happening here?" And you're like, "We've kind of overspent the last few months." And I'm like, "Oh, okay." And that's that.

Natalie Slagle (08:52):

And obviously we set things up so that if we overspend we're okay and we will have a whole chat about that. And maybe you know that you're like, "We're fine." It's okay if we spent $122 more this month, we always pay off our credit cards. But do you think that's missing in our household management, household financial management-

Dan Slagle (09:21):

For me to have more communication around like where we're at throughout the course of a month, maybe. But in all honesty, you also have the app.

Natalie Slagle (09:29):

I do.

Dan Slagle (09:30):

Am I right? You can also track the spending and pull it up with a click, on your phone you could pull up the same thing I'm looking at.

Natalie Slagle (09:38):

That's so true. And I remember when I was tracking the spending, I think I said that to you and I thought that too, like Dan had — this is to get rid of that conversation. So, we don't have to be nitpicky. We could just go to the app and be like, "Those are the numbers." You're right. I should look at it.

Dan Slagle (09:53):

Yeah. Well, let's back up because what I think was most important a few years ago when we were going through this exercise of you feeling very restricted with spending, you shared in the last episode, sometimes money can feel overwhelming for you. I think that's when you called me the passenger princess. Yeah, it's coming together now.

Dan Slagle (10:17):

So, what we did at that time was we said, okay, well why don't we change, who's doing what? Let's swap some roles here, switch responsibilities. So, the other person, the other partner gets to be involved in what's going on, whether it's from the day-to-day expenses or maybe it's the overall cashflow conversation. For us specifically, it was about tracking expenses. So, once I took that over, I think you felt an enormous sense of relief.

Natalie Slagle (10:44):

I did.

Dan Slagle (10:46):

You did. Yeah. And you were able to focus your time elsewhere and from a financial standpoint, not much has changed since then. Money is still there; savings are still there. Nothing negative happened from doing this exercise and we've just kept it because it works for us.

Natalie Slagle (11:12):

Well, when you say nothing negative has happened, what could have happened that is negative, that would have been negative?

Dan Slagle (11:19):

I mean, there's so many different scenarios of what could happen. I don't know why this pops in my head, but I could have easily been like after a month, "Screw this, I'm not doing this, this sucks." And then you could have been like, "Well I'm not doing it either." And then no one's keeping track of expenses. I'm not saying that is likely to happen, but it could, it could happen. That could be one of the worst-case scenarios. Obviously, there's much worse, but-

Natalie Slagle (11:45):

Yeah.

Dan Slagle (11:46):

That to me sticks out.

Natalie Slagle (11:48):

It's interesting because I think about our clients and some clients, they do what we do, and they keep track of everything. They have it all organized. They can get us that data, and some clients don't. And the ones that don't, some of them should be, honestly, I think the parameters would help them.

Natalie Slagle (12:06):

And some of them, they make so much, and they spend so little that it's the opposite problem is happening. They're having too much cash accumulated in their accounts. And then we're like, "Okay, let's be a little bit more purposeful here."

Natalie Slagle (12:20):

I think the way you and I have set up our, at least cashflow and spending is we keep things tight from a spending perspective so that we can save as much as possible because we've had so many conversations with our clients about cashflow and just the philosophies around it.

Natalie Slagle (12:43):

And I think about one conversation where a client, they're doing absolutely fine with the whole spending savings thing, but they're like, "If I don't take it out of my bank account and I don't put it in my brokerage account, I am going to spend it."

Natalie Slagle (12:56):

So, what I'm thinking about what you were saying, or I guess what question I had asked you is well what's the negative? If we were both like, "You know what, we're not going to pay attention to this. We're just going to pay off the credit card every month. Hopefully there's enough in the bank account for it." And I think what would happen if we didn't pay attention is we wouldn't save as much.

Dan Slagle (13:19):

Yeah. I think that could happen too.

Natalie Slagle (13:21):

That's just the outcome of it. But there's so many other things happening with our finances, with couples’ finances, our client's finances. Even outside of the budgeting. I think the budgeting is an easy or not easy. Like an easy thing to think about right away, but there's the investing side.

Natalie Slagle (13:47):

You actually manage all of our — Dan and Natalie's investments, Fyooz Financial Planning and you're the investment person. So, you're the one taking on all of that. That is a duty that I know you kind of do throughout the workday, but like that's something someone in the household has to do and be responsible for.

Natalie Slagle (14:09):

That's a task. There's like how much to put in your brokerage account, your retirement account, your 529 plan, your HSA, someone is making that decision. There's reimbursements. I hated this. So, we depleted our HSAs. We don't contribute to them anymore. But remember, you would always have to send me your medical expenses, and I would have to do a distribution from the HSA. I just hated that.

Dan Slagle (14:37):

Yeah. Why? Because it felt like your money.

Natalie Slagle (14:40):

That one did feel like my money.

Dan Slagle (14:43):

Interesting.

Natalie Slagle (14:44):

Interesting. That should be another discussion. Man, look at all these discussions just popping out. What else? Taxes. Who's filing the taxes in your household? Who's making quarterly tax payments if you have to? Who's keeping all of your tax data organized? There's just so much. Even when I say it, I'm like getting kind of-ugh.

Dan Slagle (15:08):

Okay. So, I see the point of what you wanted to talk about. It took me over halfway through the episode to get it. And I think so much I take for granted is you and I are really good communicators for the most part, and this is also our field, this is our area of expertise.

Dan Slagle (15:31):

I don't know, two software engineers aren't going to go home and ... I mean, maybe they might create a program, but they still need to work on their finances. That's still a huge part. Everyone touches money every single day and as a household you need to make sure that you're making the right decisions.

Dan Slagle (15:50):

So, whether there's a primary person or you split duties, there's still a lot that you need to take on. And I think the biggest thing you can do is have open communication around it. Or I think that's why clients hire us.

Dan Slagle (16:07):

To have more of an unbiased opinion to make sure you are getting dedicated time to talk about all these things rather than needing to carve out an hour on the weekend and sit down and review cash flow investments, tax planning, insurance, our estate plan. Who wants to do that for an hour or two on a weekend, besides us?

Natalie Slagle (16:31):

I like doing our financial stuff, but sometimes I get burnt out of it. Which by the way, maybe at some point we should hire financial planners because I think the thing that you talked about, the biggest thing here is open communication and that also means you have to sit down with your partner and talk about a kind of hard thing to talk about.

Natalie Slagle (16:53):

I think with most people, when you and I have hard conversations or one thing I like to do is to go to a coffee shop. Let's go have the hard conversation in public because then we're not going to just go at it, go at each other.

Dan Slagle (17:07):

And when you say in public, you're not sitting down at a coffee shop and there's someone sitting a foot next to you and you're just yelling out your financial information.

Natalie Slagle (17:15):

I mean, we still get a little privacy.

Dan Slagle (17:17):

Yes, exactly. I think some people take that to the extreme. You're in a public space having a — you're not holding the … remember that commercial back in the day where everyone had a number over their head. You're not doing that. You're not doing that in public.

Dan Slagle (17:35):

You're just being in a space where you're going to act like you're in public and maybe it works for us because you and I have had moments or conversations even when we talk about money at home that just feel tense.

Natalie Slagle (17:52):

Yeah.

Dan Slagle (17:52):

And I feel like just making it fun, making a day of it, not a day, but going out to breakfast and then what we always used to do is go to get coffee, talk about it and then go for a bike ride and go do something fun. And just like, you'll feel better about your finances and your relationship too.

Natalie Slagle (18:12):

Exactly. I like how you kind of pointed out, we're really fortunate to both be experts in this realm and I think that helps take off a layer of, I have to imagine there's some sort of power dynamic in some couples too because I mean, inevitably someone knows more than the other person about finances. That's just how it works.

Natalie Slagle (18:36):

Someone knows a little bit more than the other person. Or at least this person knows kind of more what's going on from a cash flow perspective. And this person over here is keeping track of taxes and investments. I don't know.

Natalie Slagle (18:47):

But I think that's another reason why having a third-party to talk to can be nice because it takes that power dynamic away and it really helps just make sure everyone's being heard. We don't have that right now. I mean, we have a business coach, and I think that does kind of play into our personal finances a little bit.

Natalie Slagle (19:13):

And having a business coach has been so nice. I was just thinking are there things that — do you feel like your voice isn't getting heard when it comes to the financial decisions, on anything? Do you feel like that ever

Dan Slagle (19:30):

No, because I'm comfortable enough. If something catches my eye or I have an opinion about something, I'll say it and I'll speak my mind on it. And I think that, to go back to what you were saying earlier, I think when there's like a power dynamic at play, I think that's what's missing.

Dan Slagle (19:46):

Is the confidence to have communication around your finances and also have another opinion added to what's going on. So, the person who handles the finances, if we view them in this lens of this conversation as the power, whatever, however we want to phrase it, but that person gets to make the decisions and there's so many biases and blind spots that are not being accounted for. And I think the most important one that's not being accounted for is the other partner's input on a matter.

Natalie Slagle (20:21):

Yeah. And feelings and comfort and insecurities and all of that. Yeah. I wish I would've used a different word because now we're using power, a power person, but-

Dan Slagle (20:32):

Let's change, let's change it. Let's find a new term. That's terrible. It's not terrible, but we just need to find a new term.

Natalie Slagle (20:40):

I'm going to flip the script a little bit. So, we have really good communication around our finances. Would you agree?

Dan Slagle (20:48):

Yes.

Natalie Slagle (20:49):

I feel like I kind of present, here's what I think we should do, and then you're like, yes or no. One thing that we have to take ownership of is saving for retirement. And so, I feel like I'm the one who's like, this is what I think we should do, and this is what we are doing.

Natalie Slagle (21:08):

I think sometimes I just go in and I do it. So, I know the dynamic's different because you know everything when it comes to financial planning and retire, all this stuff. But sometimes I am in this place where I'm like, I hope I'm making the right decisions for Dan and I and now our family.

Natalie Slagle (21:28):

It almost feels like the person who does know, or the person who maybe knows more or who's making the decisions. I have some empathy for that person because I'm like, there's a lot of responsibility you're taking on.

Dan Slagle (21:46):

Yeah, absolutely.

Natalie Slagle (21:47):

And your family is depending on you to make the right decisions. I think that's an important aspect of this as well. And so, that person can feel like, "Oh, look at all this stress that I'm taking on of making these financial decisions." That's a mental load.

Natalie Slagle (22:05):

And then you've got the other perspective of I might not know as much of the technical things. I might not be the decision maker, but like my voice and my ideas and my fears and excitements still need to be at play here.

Dan Slagle (22:21):

Yeah.

Natalie Slagle (22:22):

This is hard.

Dan Slagle (22:23):

It is hard. It's for sure hard; money is hard and then especially when you have two people involved. So, what are your takeaways from this conversation? What are your biggest takeaways and maybe some solutions to this conversation?

Natalie Slagle (22:41):

My takeaways are that I think the way you and I have things set up are really good. Maybe I should check that app more to see where we're at with our spending. I mean, solutions, I think solutions in regards to this is always evolving. It's the mental load.

Natalie Slagle (23:03):

So, I feel like you and I need to continue to check in with each other. Hey, how are you feeling about being the one to track our expenses? Does this feel like a valid use of your time? Is it worth it? Is it really benefiting us? I think asking each other these types of questions on an ongoing basis more than once every four years, would be good. What do you think?

Dan Slagle (23:30):

I was just going to say the same thing. I think it's like my biggest takeaway is having open communication and checking in with whether it's the partner who is handling more of the finances or if it's the person who is removed from the finances. If there's that dynamic at play.

Dan Slagle (23:49):

And even if both parties or partners are doing something financially related for the household, still have that check in with each other because if you don't make dedicated time for it, you might be missing out on how money is impacting the other person.

Natalie Slagle (24:06):

Absolutely.

Dan Slagle (24:07):

That's my biggest takeaway.

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Natalie Slagle (24:08):

Awesome. Well thanks Dan. Appreciate the conversation.

Dan Slagle (24:12):

Yeah, thanks Natalie.

Voiceover (24:15):

Hey, if you've enjoyed this episode and are looking for personalized financial guidance, schedule a free complimentary consultation using the link in the description below. Natalie and Dan Slagle are the founding partners of Fyooz Financial Planning, a registered investment advisor. The information provided in this podcast is for informational purposes only, and should not be considered investment advice or a recommendation to buy or sell any securities. Investing involves risk, including the potential loss of principal. Advisory services are offered to clients or prospective clients where Fyooz Financial Planning and its representatives are properly licensed or exempt from licensure. For more information, including our disclosures, please visit our website at www.fyoozfinancial.com.

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