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Natalie Slagle  00:00

Maybe there should be just this open dialog on, hey, before you agree to travel with me, just so you know, I like to go to the bougiest of restaurants. And if that's not for you, then either A, we we just don't eat together on the trip, or B, like, it's okay that we're not travel companions. We can still be, yeah, everyday companions just not travel companions, you know? So I think having that communication before the event is really, really important.

Dan Slagle  00:28

Yeah, I think something you and I have learned over the past several years of doing more group vacations, whether it's with family or friends, is you don't have to do everything together.

Natalie Slagle  00:41

Welcome to money dates, the podcast that makes money conversations with your partner feel a little less taboo. I'm Natalie Slagle, a certified financial planner, and I'm joined by my husband and business partner, Dan Slagle, also a Certified Financial Planner. Say Hi, Dan, hello. In each episode, we'll share honest stories and practical tips to help you and your partner feel more connected and confident on your financial journey. So grab your drink, get comfortable and join us for our money dates. Wow, we're here

Dan Slagle  01:14

all right. So I want to just jump into today's topic, but first, before we do that, when was the last time you went out with just a friend and like, grab dinner, coffee? When was that for you?

Natalie Slagle  01:28

Let's see, I feel like it's a red flag that I can't even think of it, but I maybe that's just because of where my brain is at right now today, however, I don't know if you saw on our calendar. Dan, I am doing it tonight. Did you know that?

Dan Slagle  01:45

No, I had no idea. Well, there you go, and maybe you can use some lessons from today's podcast into your event tonight.

Natalie Slagle  01:52

Yes, well, when's the last time you went out with a friend? Well, I

Dan Slagle  01:56

had, well, this morning. I mean, you were there too. So it wasn't just myself. You were there, and they're not like a friend this morning and our daughter, yeah, yeah. So, okay, so today, what we want to talk about is, how do you like navigating money conversations with friends and family when it comes to splitting shared expenses like meals and group trips or gifts, right? Like, if you go in on a gift as, like, a friend group for a person, how do you go about paying for it, splitting the expense, right? That's what we're going to talk about today. Okay, I think it's going to be super interesting.

Natalie Slagle  02:34

Yeah, I think it will be too. I also thought at the beginning you were going to just like, call us out for not going out with friends individually, which I think maybe we should, we should have an offline discussion about

Speaker 1  02:47

that. But you're doing it tonight. I know some discussion that needs to take

Natalie Slagle  02:51

place. Okay, okay, you're right. You're right. Okay,

Dan Slagle  02:54

is there like, okay, so we, I alluded to what we're going to talk about today. How do you typically go about it?

Natalie Slagle  03:01

I think it depends. And so much of this conversation today will be, it depends. It depends, depends. Well, at first we need to give credit, right? We need to give credit to why we're even talking about this, which is this whole conversation was brought up from a listener, and so we had a question from a listener which, if you would like us to talk about anything specific, you should reach out to us. And so this listener said the following, okay, I want to read it, because I think it'll help kind of create framework of our discussion today. So so the question from the listener is, how do you navigate money, conversations with friends and family when it comes to splitting shared expenses, like Meals group trips or gifts. So it can be uncomfortable when people have different budgets or expectations. So I want to be respectful of other situations and clear about my own, but I'm not always sure how to bring it up without making things awkward from Heather. So thank you, Heather for submitting this question, and we're going to talk about it today.

Dan Slagle  04:08

The only thing that comes to my mind when I hear this question is this experience we you and I had a few years ago, when we were in we were in New York City visiting, and we visited with a client. And I remember this, this client, you know, our intention was to just pay for the meal, yeah, for the drinks, right? Like, that was the intention that I had going into it. And I remember that he, he stood up, left the table, and said, I want to use the restroom.

Natalie Slagle  04:34

You remember this? Yes, that sneaky man. You remember this?

Dan Slagle  04:37

And the waiter never, like, came back, like, even after our client or friend came back from the restroom, and, like, we were like, well, we need to pay. Like, where's the waiter been? And he was like, Oh, I already took care of it. We're just like, You sneaky, sneaky guy. Like, you didn't, I don't even know if you had to use the restroom. You just went to the back and you paid for it, right? And he. That at happy hour for drinks, right? Yeah, so I, I remember returning the favor at dinner, and I did the exact same thing to him.

Natalie Slagle  05:08

Yes, that was a frustrating experience, because we wanted to take our clients out as, like a client appreciation. We're in New York City, you know, we want to just show our appreciation. And I'm so glad we had two different outings that night because he paid for the first, which he they should not have paid for either outing, but that that's a moment. And when I was thinking about this topic today, Dan about, like, what we were going to talk about, I was thinking, Well, what experiences have we had? That's a really recent one, but this has, I think about how this really starts to explode in your life when you go to college, right? Because you're becoming independent for the first time, and you have to start splitting, you know, the energy bill with your roommates, and that's all weird. And then the thing that's actually kind of been happening since college, and I've still I had this experience last year was going to a bachelorette party, which is a really unique experience, because you're traveling, but you're traveling with people you may kind of know or are complete strangers, and then you are forced to have this splitting of finance conversation. And so it is like you can't escape it. And I imagine this is going to continue to come up when our daughter does certain things with other parents, and we need to make sure that we it's going to always be there. So how do we how do we approach it?

Dan Slagle  06:35

I even had an experience this morning when you and I and our daughter went out to eat with a friend who is moving, he like he's moving for a new job, and this is like the last morning that we would be able to see him. So I, you know, we wanted to take him out to breakfast, and at the register, I pulled out my credit card, I pulled out my credit card, and he immediately said, no, no, don't do that. I got it. But me, you know this, and he's also from the Midwest. It was like, like, a comic book Midwestern, like, dialog that took place. He was like, No, I got it. And I said, No, we want to treat you. And so then I had him put his order on top of ours. And then, like, now, if you're really fast, like, if you're sneaky fast, the square machine will just all, of a sudden when the order is entered, you know, say, swipe, tap, or, like, pay. Well now you can just tap. So I was very fast, like, quick to the draw, and I just, like, tap the card immediately. And he was like, No, I I had this whole, like, speech prepared. Like, what are you talking about? You had a speech prepared. Like, ah, so I don't, you're right, though. Like, I mean that even just happened to me, like, five hours ago, and it's just like, it's like, this awkward balance of like, hey, no, I want to treat you. You want to treat us, or split the cost, or go on your own bill. Like, there's so many options, and you don't know what the other person is thinking until everyone is presented with the opportunity. Like, at the same time, right?

Natalie Slagle  08:01

Exactly, and so I think there's just so many facets at play. So it's not like you can just have this in this situation. I'm going to act like this, because what we've started to talk about is when you want to treat someone, and maybe that person doesn't realize that you want to give them this experience, or dinner, or whatever it is. So there's that, and then the flip side is maybe someone wants to treat you, or you're going into an experience that maybe it's just you do want it to be equitable, whatever that means. So I think we should dive into kind of this, the things that are happening behind these situations, which is, there's social pressure, right? Of like, I think of like, when you're doing maybe a family or a friend vacation, and there's the social pressure of a just saying, like, yes or no to the vacation. And then when you're on the vacation, you know, you have this group of people that that want to do something, and maybe you don't want to do it, or maybe you're the person who wants to do something and there's someone who isn't. So there's the social pressures, there's then, like, the guilt and shame around money, and then the big one, I think, which is really interesting for you and I, dad, Dan, in the seats that we sit are the the different like expectations or financial situations, because, and the reason why I think it's interesting for you and I is because we there are people in our personal life that are also in our professional life, right? So, like people we run into personally, that are also our clients, and so we have this really unique perspective of we literally know the ins and outs of their financial situation. So that gives us this unique perspective there. But, and then there's us just making assumptions on people's financial situations and what, what that means as well. So, lots, yeah.

Dan Slagle  10:00

Outstanding, I think, for sure, and the differing expectations and financial situations for everyone else listening, who's not a financial planner and doesn't have maybe friends or family that they're they know their finances, right? You have no idea what's going on unless the other person shares and we had an experience recently where friends had recently purchased a home, you know, it was, like their dream property that that they wanted to purchase. They purchased it, and then we went on a group vacation with them, and another couple, Mm, hmm, right? And, and I think it was, that's where, and a lot of the financial resources and income were kind of tied into this new home, right? Like it was made, like, it was pretty evident that it was a little tighter, from like, a cash flow perspective on the vacation, because the vacation also cost, you know, it's, it's not free, right at the end of the day, right? So there was an expectation of, hey, we want to do more meals at home. And then, from the other group, it was, hey, we want to go out to eat, yes, more. And then we're kind of in the middle, right, like, well, we can do both. Do both, yeah. So how did, like, how do you recall us going, going about that, like, I was it more of a thing, like via text and conversation, as opposed to how it was actually, like, lived

Natalie Slagle  11:16

out. So we did, we did have communication. It was over text. So there is that things get lost over communication, via text, but we laid out, this is what one of the families wants to do, and this is what another family wants to do. And then, being very true to our fashion, Dan, Dan and I were like, We can do both like, or we can, you know, we're, we're, we can do whatever works. And based on that, it was kind of this agreement on what there can be a blend, and if the blend doesn't work, for one of the parties who were like, I really want to go out to eat for every meal. You want to do it, you want to cook meals in well, then, then go out to eat. You know, we don't have to, you know, it's like, I think the group vacations get really interesting because people vacation differently. People spend their money differently, and you really get to see that come to play when you go on vacation with each other. So what we had done is we had, we had set those parameters and we had those discussions prior to going on the trip, which I think was really, really helpful to just, hey, like these, this is how I want to go about it. This is how you want to go about it. Let's kind of set some expectations around that. And I think that was really

Dan Slagle  12:33

helpful. Yeah, yeah. I definitely think it was helpful, because what it allowed us to do is understand where each family was coming from what they were comfortable doing, and then we just like made our plans around it, the family friends who maybe didn't want to go out to eat, well, they were in charge of a meal one night, and they just prepared dinner for everyone, right, right? And then the family or the friends that wanted to go out to eat, well, on their night, they just bought dinner for everyone at a restaurant. Oh, yeah, right, right, right. You can have both. You can have both. But I think what allowed for that to happen, like without any conflict or any like other undesirable feelings, is the idea of at least having some form of communication heading into

Natalie Slagle  13:18

it, right, right. So yeah, as far as I think about traveling, traveling is just easy to go to because that's where there's a lot of money spent. It is so important to have these conversations before the event occurs, and maybe even before the booking happens, because depending on on the trip, like maybe there should be just this open dialog on, hey, before you agree to travel with me, just so you know, I like to go to the bougiest of restaurants. And if that's not for you, then either A, we just don't eat together on the trip, or B, like, let's just say it's okay that we're not travel companions. We can still be everyday companions, just not travel companions, you know. So I think having that communication before the event is really, really important.

Dan Slagle  14:08

Yeah, I think something you and I have learned over the past several years of doing more group vacations, whether it's with family or friends, is you don't have to do everything together, and you're still going to be friends, and you're still going to really enjoy each other's company. So even outside of money alone, money may be a barrier in this, in this circumstance, but if there's a an activity that the group wants to do, but you know, a few of you don't then, then don't do it, right? Like you can still spend time elsewhere, on vacation. It doesn't always have to be everyone needs to be together at once, right? I think that allows for just a little more freedom flexibility, even from a financial standpoint.

Natalie Slagle  14:45

Yeah. And one thing where we haven't laid out as far as these kind of different scenarios is, and we've kind of been in this, but let's just like, let's paint a picture on where this is, like, really obvious, and that is, you know, you're traveling. And I think this happens more so with family, but let's say you go on a trip with a family member, and you are the person who has quite a bit of resources. Whether that means you have a lot in your bank account, your investment accounts, you make really good income, maybe you're that family member, but then you're going on these vacations with family members who don't have as much resources as you do, right? So that their income is lower, their bank accounts are lower, whatever it may be. So I think that can be an interesting dynamic. We were talking before about the social pressures and guilt. Well, when you go on vacation, maybe there's this awesome water park that you want to take all three of your children to, and each kid, it costs $100 for admission. And you're like, we're on vacation, we're going to do this. Like, let's all do this. And you want this to be a family affair? I think that's the situation that can get uncomfortable, is you want to have these experiences with other family members. But let's be honest, $100 to you per ticket, it just doesn't hit as hard as maybe a family member who's not, you know, who doesn't have as many as much resources as you so that, I think can get really difficult. How would you navigate that?

Dan Slagle  16:17

Dan, if I had all the money in the world. My intention with any friend or family member would be to pay for as many things as I could. That's where I stand on

Natalie Slagle  16:29

it. But in this situation, if you don't have all the money in the world, but you have more money than I'm just going to say a sibling, because that's just easy to do. But if you have more money than sibling, but you don't have all the money in the world. How do you navigate this situation?

Dan Slagle  16:43

So I don't have all the money in the world, but I have more money than a close friend or family member. I'll still try to pay for it, like, that's how I would go about it. And maybe that has something to do with like how I was raised, and like the love languages that that I have right where gifting is still we've talked about it in past episodes, like gifting is a big thing. So to me, it's like, I want to be able to do that now, with the caveat, if that person ever told me, No, I want to pay for it. I think in my earlier years I would have tried to fight it, but now I would respect it, right? And it's to me, it's different than this is interesting because it's a total reversal of the story I shared this morning.

Natalie Slagle  17:29

Yes, I'm like, wait, what changed? How

Dan Slagle  17:32

that event to me changed, like this was like a farewell breakfast to me, so something like that. Maybe I'm not as lenient on but if it's just going, like, one of 20 meals or 10 meals you have on a vacation with someone, and I want to pick up the bill on one, then I'm okay with that, right? But if they're like, No, I want to split it 5050, then, then I'm just going to respect their their wishes, because at the end of the day, how they verbalize things, how they communicate around it. That's their

Natalie Slagle  18:04

intention. Absolutely, I do, you know, going back to what we were saying before, like, there's an event coming up, you have, you're sharing in the event with friends and family. How do we address the financial aspects? I think it's, again, so important to talk about before, because if I'm, like, if you're my brother and not my husband, Dan, and you're the one who's well off, and I'm the one that's, I mean, even struggling to go on this vacation, and you, you're the planner, you're like, Hey, there's this awesome water park. Like, I really think we should all go in my head, if I saw that, I'd be, I'd be looking at the prices per tickets, and doing the math, okay, I have this many kids and this many price blah, blah, blah, and I'm just, I'm getting anxious about the trip, even though it's a vacation, and I should be getting excited about it. And so that's why, if there's going to be these moments where you're going to treat people, maybe it can, it can ruin the element of surprise. There's that. But if I'm planning an event with my very well off brother, and they're telling me all these events they want to do, I'm going to be so stressed about the event. But if they're like, Hey, there's this awesome Water Park, and it's going to be my treat for the whole family on the random Tuesday that we're all going to be at this cabin, I'm going to be like, amazing, like, you just took off the stress of the planning and the financial impact, and so, like, just having those conversations before is beneficial for everybody involved.

Dan Slagle  19:34

But no one talks about it. No one talks about money. So how are you supposed to even, like, it's easy for us to say set expectations early, but in the example you just gave, you, know if I was the the planner and sending the text to the whole family saying, hey, here are all the things that I found we can do today. Not once Am I saying, What are your expectations for cost? Yeah, like, what are your expectations for paying for things? So it's always like, oh, let's plan the event. Let's have fun. And then there's just an added expectation that everyone's going to be able to pay for it. Yes, why is the cost? Because the cost is a big barrier into doing activities. Why is the cost never talked about? It's like, talked about. I feel like I shouldn't say it's never talked about. It's always like, Oh, it's like, $50 a ticket, $35 a ticket, and then it's on you as the person receiving that message, to say, that's not going to work,

Natalie Slagle  20:30

yeah, to kind of to like, that's a hard feeling. Raise your hand and say, I I'm not in a position where I can afford this. Which, gosh, this, this conversation got just so interesting to me, because I'm thinking like, what happens, Dan, if you were my little brother, right? And you're Why am I always your brother in these because he can't be my husband. We have the same financial situation. So you're my little brother, and I have four kids, and you're single and you're and you have a job paying you hundreds and hundreds of 1000s of dollars, and I'm like, barely making it with however many kids I said I had at home. And you're like, Yeah, I want to go to this water park. Imagine you're like, an obnoxious little brother. Right? To me, there would be, you know, it's not just about, like, communicating, but there's this dynamic of like, well, I'm the older sibling, like, and now I'm having my little sibling pain my way for me and the kids and like, so I I just want to, like, say, you know, we're like, oh, having the conversation. But there's, it's so much more to it than that. And so you might have this dynamic within your family on like, siblings tend to be competitive in some way. So maybe you have that competitive thing going on. And then I know that that can be true with friends as well on like, one friend saying, hey, I want to do all these things, and another friend being like, I can't afford that.

Dan Slagle  21:50

Well, you keep referring to siblings. Let's take it up a step. Okay. What about parents? Ooh, you're like your parents, yes, and the expectation, my experience is really interesting, because I never had an expectation that I had to pay for anything, and I feel like that was because my mom was, like, super all about spoiling me. Yeah. And when she she passed away, I love my dad. He's probably listening to this, but, like, the dynamic shifted a little bit, and I felt a little more responsibility in, oh, I should be paying for things now,

Natalie Slagle  22:29

interesting, well, so both of your perspective, well, it wasn't even that your dad's perspective change. I think your mom was just the decision maker, and now your dad's in the decision maker spot as far as, like, who buys what? So that changed for him, and then your perspective changed, because it's not mom and dad anymore. It's just dad. So interesting.

Dan Slagle  22:49

It is interesting. Yeah, yeah. What are your expectations with with parents? I don't mean to put you on the spot if you don't want to talk about it, but like, do you have expectations with parents?

Natalie Slagle  22:59

I do. I do have expectations with parents in that I am sometimes surprised on what they offer, and in the sense of, sometimes I offer to pay for things where I'm just like, oh, like, I don't, you don't need to, or you don't, you know how to. And then sometimes I don't offer, and I'm like, Oh, I'm surprised you're not offering like and I almost feel like, if there's anyone that I in regards to this topic, I could be better at being more upfront and having the dialog before with both sets of my parents. But instead, what tends to happen, at least with my dialog with my parents as we get to the event, and then it's, it's like, we're at the square is right there in front of your face, who's paying? And it's by then it kind of creates this, that awkward, like, Oh, who's who's pulling out their wallet the slowest, you know? It's like, I'm reaching.

Dan Slagle  23:57

I forgot what. I forgot what company was the alligator arms. Alligator arms. That was a great commercial, right? That was perfect. Okay, so let's take it one step further, because this conversation keeps evolving, and I think we're not going to have a solution for everyone, but there are things to think about for everyone. You and I are parents now, so when do we start having a conversation about, what are we paying for for our daughter? Oh, and does that stop at a certain point? Right? Like, I feel like our parents are from, you know, World War Two generation, not them, but their parents. Their parents were right. So they they had a lot of money habits creep in from that generation, which good and bad. I think every generation has. One of them could be frugality. So at what point do you and I now as parents step in and say we're either going to pay for as much as we can, or at a certain age, maybe we kind of cut it back a little

Natalie Slagle  24:52

bit that I don't know, but there is this. It's so obvious right now, like I'm. Not going to ask my 13 month old to start chipping in. Yeah, of course. That's not what I'm talking I know that's not, but I'm saying she's older. I'm saying, Okay, it's so obvious, and then it starts to get less obvious, less obvious. So when does that flip when? Like to me, it's it's obvious now, but it's not obvious in the future of what that will look like, and I think that that warrants a whole episode on, like, having those dialogs with your children. So I don't want to dive too deep into that, because we, we just do not have time for that. But what I'm gathering is, you know, we keep saying it like, Have the conversation before and then during the event, like, let's say it's you're on the vacation now, you've had the conversation, and then during the event, it's okay, we're we're at dinner tonight. As I stated in the text, I wanted to treat everyone so you know, it's like, yeah, because they're still like, Okay, remember Uncle Timmy said that he was going to pay tonight. I hope he still is, because I'm getting two margaritas instead of just want, you know, like, communication, communication, communication, she.

Dan Slagle  26:07

Don't you love that when someone says they're gonna pay up front and you're like, I'm having, like, the company party. Like I'm having three

Natalie Slagle  26:13

margaritas. I want two appetizers. Always getting two appetizers if someone else is paying so note to anyone, yeah, to buy a meal. And let me

Dan Slagle  26:22

to recap things that people who are listening can can work on. I think it's setting expectations early. You obviously hit on that one a lot, which in doing so, you're normalizing open dialog, yeah, to talk about money, for example. Like, what would an example of that be for you, like open dialog. Do you have something off the top of mine?

Natalie Slagle  26:43

No, I do. Then why'd you ask me share your I

Dan Slagle  26:47

don't know. It's just what you do on podcasts, I guess. So I'd love to an example. I'd love to split the check evenly, but I only have a salad. Is that okay? If I Venmo, you would like a different amount, right? So if, like, you go out to eat with friends, and like, you're on a diet, like, whatever it may be, and you get a salad, only, I shouldn't say a diet, because people just eat salads normally. But, like, if you order a salad, but everyone else is ordering, like, the $50 steaks and the bottles of wine, I think it's fair to say, like to bring it up and have your voice and vocalize that. So just again, normalizing open dialog using tools like Venmo is a great yeah. Also, like, I think with Venmo, might need to have a separate episode, also on, like, public versus private transactions, but and like, when couples Venmo each other. Anyways, I digress. Venmo is still helpful in this instance. And then afterwards, once everything is done, it's like, if you still feel, feel like a little awkward about it, I think it's okay to just say, like, Hey, I hope that worked for you. I just wanted to check

Natalie Slagle  27:50

in. Yeah. I think a lot of this, like, everyone's thresholds financially, are different to me. There was a point in my life where I would get really upset when I purposefully didn't order a drink at dinner and I got kind of the cheaper burger rather than the steak. And then you it's the classic example, the bill comes, and you're like, let's just split it evenly. And you're like, Well, what the heck? And, and this, I remember this happened, or this happened with us, Dan, because you don't drink alcohol at restaurants. And so it always felt like in those situations, like we didn't like, we were paying a little bit more than we should have otherwise. And I found myself getting a little like, it just be this, like, like, this little annoyance. And then I was like, here's what I can do in this in the future. If I know this annoys me, I can communicate with people that, like, Hey, I would like us to just pay ourselves. Or I can just stop caring about it, and where I can say, I you know, or I can just not go to dinner. And to me, call me an avoider, because this is like, this is what I was just like, You know what I'm I'm just going to not care about it. So to me, it was like a mind set shift. And so I think that kind of plays into this too. Like, if it bothers you enough, you should say something. If you can't say something, then you're kind of the problem, and you need to change something, whether it's not going or not caring. You know, that was kind of my approach to it, but it also helped, because throughout these experiences too, our financial situation, we have been able to get more and more just spending money, you know, kind of frivolous spending money. And so I kind of cared less, because our financial situation changed along the way too. So this whole thing is just like it depends, it depends, it

Dan Slagle  29:50

depends. You know, how you resolve what you originally started that topic on, you just get order two drinks for yourself. Health, that's how we resolve it. Oh, you mean, if it still bothers

Natalie Slagle  30:04

you, it doesn't bother me, that was my point.

Dan Slagle  30:07

Dan, well, I know. Okay. I was saying, if it still does, obviously you shared why it doesn't. Anyways, this is obviously very interesting, and I would love for anyone listening to just think about it. The next time you know you're going to go out to eat or get drinks with someone, and just plan accordingly and see how things lie.

Natalie Slagle  30:26

Yeah, absolutely. Well, thanks for the conversation. Dan, okay, thanks. Natalie, bye.

Dan Slagle  30:34

Hey, if you've enjoyed this episode and are looking for personalized financial guidance, schedule a free complimentary consultation using the link in the description below, Natalie and Dan Slagle are the founding partners of Fyooz Financial Planning, a registered investment advisor. The information provided in this podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be considered investment advice or a recommendation to buy or sell any securities. Investing involves risk, including the potential loss of principal. Advisory services are offered to clients or prospective clients, where Fyooz Financial Planning and its representatives are properly licensed or exempt from licensure. For more information, including our disclosures, please visit our website@www.fyoozfinancial.com.

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